Caution: Up To Date is designed to be read in a linear fashion, as each chapter builds on principles established in the previous chapters. For your best relationship success, begin with the introduction and progress chapter by chapter.
Chapter Seventeen
Do I Have to?
“The glory of young men is their strength:
and the beauty of old men is the grey head” (Proverbs 20:29).
It's time to ask. The big question is: time to ask who?
Here is presented the most significant step in initiating a relationship, which can impact your long term happiness in marriage. It’s in your hands, Mr. Date, so I pulled out all the stops, imagined and created every possible scenario, giving you detailed, tried, and true guidance for each (which makes this quite a long chapter), thereby providing for your best success. The rest is up to you . . . .
This “retro” tip is essential for your future relationship and due respectful consideration in the Christian dating realm. It may be tough, but if you don’t have the fortitude to take this risk, you aren’t ready to move into a familial priestly role, thereby disqualifying you to enter a relationship. You know what I am going to say, don’t you?
This attractive young lady is still her father’s daughter, and until someone moves into the role by marrying her, Dad is still the priest of her family. You guessed it: you must ask his permission to date his daughter, no matter is she is seventeen or eighty-five years of age. If her father is alive, you have the privilege of asking him. The caveat? If you win her father, you’ll increase her admiration for you. Below you will find the tools to tackle most any scenario dad throws your way.
“So, what is the best way to secure his approval?” you might inquire. Let’s just take this step by step.
Give Dad a call, and ask if you may stop by to visit with him. Ask if mom will be there. You may be asking dad, but mom should be in on the conversation. If they are no longer married, you will want to ask each separately.
There is more than one benefit to asking her parents. From the parent’s perspective, this requirement protects their daughter from anyone who doesn’t value her enough to make the effort, “weeding out the riffraff.” Opening communication avoids suspicion, which benefits you, and the effort demonstrates both your sincerity and respect for authority – a key to hearing that coveted “yes.”
Unless you live too far away, the asking must be done in person. This face-to-face acquainting-time is just too important to miss. Rare situations may warrant a phone call, but never ask via email. If you live too far away, you might have to use the next best alternative, but a several hour drive is not too far. “Too distant” basically means he is on a different continent. The farther you have to go to accomplish this task in person, the higher will be their esteem for you. Having encouraged you to go the distance, it is also important to use common sense. Since timing is important, we wouldn’t recommend putting this step off six months because you can’t be face to face, but asking in person is always best.
Do you wonder what to say? Try this: enter the home with humble confidence, shake his hand with a firm but not over vigorous shake, greet Mom, ask them how they are today while being seated, and then cut to the chase. They may not want you hanging around for hours trying to work up the guts. They expect you to be nervous, but don’t prattle or rush. Share with them that you have evaluated your life, prepared spiritually and practically, and that you feel you are ready to consider dating. Let them know that of all the girls you know, their daughter has made the best impression on you, and you’d like the opportunity to get to know her better in an exclusive dating relationship. Then ask for their permission to ask their daughter to date. Your words should be well thought out in advance, and if asked, the Holy Spirit will lead as He knows best how to direct this life changing conversation.
And if he says “no”?
One must be prayerfully prepared, in advance, to remain calm should this happen. An inappropriate response at this delicate time will justify their refusal. Since their daughter ultimately has the final say, you may one day seem to win in spite of anger, defensive, or subversive behavior (going behind their back), but someone else loses – and ultimately, so do you. Jean’s parents were once told, “I knew you wouldn’t like it, but I just figured that in five years from now when you saw everything was OK, you’d be glad.” Victory in the face of division and betrayal never turns sweet, and it dishonors Christ.
Avoid being defensive or demanding. Simply ask: “Do you have any advice for me? Is there something I can do to win your favor?” This is where many make their mistake as guys often feel like they must perform as though they have-it-all-together to impress her family, or as though he doesn’t need their advice; he is prepared and knows a lot already—especially about that girl. Asking parents for advice tells them that you don’t have your own selfish agenda, that you want to do what is right – that which will bless their daughter and contributes to her happiness. Asking their advice also shows respect for age and authority, which is key to a healthy relationship with them and their daughter.
One person’s suggested that since the Bible says, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife . . . ” (Genesis 2:24), it means that you will be joining her family in a sense, so one would do well to truly respect her parents as elders whether or not you like or agree with them. You needn’t agree on everything to feel respectful toward them, but respect shows that you are working toward a common goal: the care, nurturing, and happiness of their daughter. It shows you are on the same team.
Parents may refuse a suitor even if they know he is the best match for their daughter – we did. They may have concerns, but concerns can often be overcome with calm, healthy communication—and humility—on your part. No matter what they say, or how it is said, that heartfelt humility is your greatest argument. A truly humble man, even if he is never able to date their daughter, will want to respectfully maximize any opportunity for character building, but such a young man is not likely to be dismissed too quickly by those parents, even if he has a fault or two.
At this time, if Dad’s answer is “no”, do not ask his daughter to date. Any young man can honor her parent’s wishes as long as they agree with him. True valor, true Christ-like character is determined by honoring others in the face of adversity and even during unjust treatment. Here is where you can shine – or not. There may be more than one testing time—maybe to the point of exhaustion—but how much is she worth? “The glory of young men is their strength” – the strength to endure. This is no time to add barriers, and it’s in your hands ;-). It’s the parent’s job to protect their daughter, so let them. Hang in there respectfully. It isn’t over yet . . .
Now that you have their advice, if it was a good conversation, and it seems workable, ask if you can check back with them at a defined time, maybe a week, two weeks or whatever is needed to accomplish any mutually defined goals. Follow the plan and check back with them at the appointed time.
In the interim, I can almost guarantee that their daughter will find out about your asking—which should be her first real exposure to your interest. If she is interested, she will advocate for you to her parents. Also, be aware that by making known your interest to her family, she will realize that you are working on meeting the parent’s dating criteria, which means that you have already indirectly begun the wooing process. This is the only time that it is appropriate to woo prior to a formal dating relationship – only if done indirectly. Straight forward wooing, at this point, would be disrespectful.
If But what if they continue saying “no”?
There are some parents that can and will be completely unreasonable no matter what you do. Just remember that everyone’s thought processes and judgment-calls are based on their own past experiences, which are different than yours. When someone sees a snake, they will decide if that snake if friend or foe. Initially Eve would say friend, and Adam would say foe. Yet once experienced, they both realized they didn’t have a clue about this reptile. But if you ask me, I like reptiles, as I have never had a bad experience. A wise suitor recognizes that it’s all a matter of perspective and behaves accordingly.
The suitor most likely to be approved is he who makes an extra effort to understand her parents, to find out where he or she is coming from, if possible, and realize that though you don’t understand, it does make perfect sense to them – and he who respects that “they weren’t born yesterday.” Love them and treat them like Christ would, and the most unreasonable parents will be won if it is in God will. Keep in mind that you are demonstrating your character, and impacting eternity, by your patient trust in God’s ability to guide each heart.
If she is under age (eighteen years in the United States), then I hope I don’t have to tell you what to do, but just in case . . . wait until she is eighteen or, if her parents are paying her college tuition, wait until she is out of college. Even if she is over eighteen, you have a few extra hoops to jump through. You didn’t tell them you would never ask her out, however you must be cautious here. Their concerns could actually be valid, but you are not yet mature enough to see the light.
We observed one headstrong young man go against parents he thought were so unreasonable when the parents were right on! He just could not, would not, see the error of his ways, which were validated by the heartbreaking treatment of the family when they didn’t cater to his wishes. He got the girl but made everyone’s life miserable, including hers. I would argue whether it’s true love that puts her in that position – or an arrogant need to prove himself right at anyone’s expense but his own. His unwillingness to learn from her parents means that his headstrong, passionate ways are left to his wife’s discipline – a position a wise girl will avoid.
Another young man married a girl whose father said he could never marry. A miserable life resulted and twenty years later, his continued arrogance exposed his motive to be her father’s challenge and not a desire to further her best interest, all of which validated her father’s refusal too late.
It would be best to not even consider wooing this young woman, or discussing dating with her, until you have worked with the parents for at least three months. If they still refuse, before asking her, you should consult a Christian marriage counselor to inquire whether the parents might have a legitimate concern that needs rectified before dating. Should you eventually go against her parent’s wishes and date her, you want to prove you are a stand-up guy by bringing a report back to them from an unbiased certified Christian marriage counselor—family or friends do not qualify. It may cost you some money, but a valuable investment if she means anything to you. Should you and your counselor decide that the parents are still being unreasonable, even after presenting information from the counselor, you must be up front with them before pursuing her directly.
Very respectfully ask them again to date their daughter. If they still refuse, and if she is of age, remind them very humbly and even more respectfully that you have done what you can (if you truly have) to accommodate their concerns, including consulting a professional, and that you would like the choice to be their daughter’s. Tell them that you will give them time to speak with her, so you will delay asking until tomorrow. Giving the parents time to talk with their daughter lets them know that you are not trying to usurp their authority but attempting to do all you can to work with them. No matter how unreasonable they might be, you need to be reasonable. Leave with a humble appeal for them to reconsider. Then pray, asking God to lead all those involved over the next twenty-four hours, trusting that He is in control. On the morrow, ask her directly, accepting graciously her response.
By now you might be saying, “No! I could be wasting my time and energy. She may not even like me. This is way too much to do without knowing whether I have a chance with her. It is just too much to ask.” If that thought crosses your mind, consider this: you want to date her to see if she is your soul mate for the rest of your life, to love, honor, cherish, through sickness and health, etc., but you aren’t willing to risk three months of your life unless you know she is interested? This idea hints that when life gets tough, you won’t make any effort unless you know the outcome, which disqualifies you as a suitor or husband. This plan has its risks, but was it not this same risk that won us to Christ? He sacrificed for me and you while risking that we would not accept Him. Just like you and me, the value of the girl is demonstrated by the enormity of the risk.
Unless you present yourself in an extremely undesirable way, only the hardest of hearts would not be touched by such gentle, respectful perseverance. The highest form of wooing is self-sacrifice . . . and risk. This young lady may have despised you in the beginning, but when you work through this process, you will have one of two assurances: 1) she will fall for the guy who cares enough to do it right, to humbly “fight” for her while showing respect for those she loves, or 2) you two are just not meant to be together. You accomplished in three months what three years of dating may not have exposed and, either way, since God alone knows the future, you ultimately win by trusting Him.
“Sure! You can ask, but . . . “
Suppose the parents are OK with you dating their daughter but tell you that she will probably refuse. We’re back to the same question as before: “Do you have advice for me?” Put their advice to use, but unless what they suggest will take some time, don’t walk away from this encounter without asking her to date within the next twenty-four hours.
Why would you ask the girl if the parents made it clear that she may say no? There are several reasons: 1) sometimes parents don’t know what their kids are thinking, and she should answer for herself, 2) sometimes the girl doesn’t really know how she feels until you approach her, 3) if she declines, you need to hear it from her own lips, and 4) this very interaction might make her notice you when she hadn’t before. Don’t let fear slow you down. It’s worth giving her a chance, but avoid prolonged drama by asking ASAP.
A Resounding “Yes!”
Of course, we know that you have shown yourself a godly man, and no parent could refuse. You are elated, and they are excited. Again, this is the time to humbly and sincerely ask: “Do you have any advice for me?” They will likely have some great ideas about how to win her heart but may also have some good advice about life in general; listen well. They are smart people. After all, they approve of you.
You have now earned the right to date, but you wouldn’t want to be successful with Dad only to “blow it” with her. In the following chapter, you will find some tips that will leave you feeling prepared and confident, but it really isn’t that hard – or is it?
Do I Have to?
“The glory of young men is their strength:
and the beauty of old men is the grey head” (Proverbs 20:29).
It's time to ask. The big question is: time to ask who?
Here is presented the most significant step in initiating a relationship, which can impact your long term happiness in marriage. It’s in your hands, Mr. Date, so I pulled out all the stops, imagined and created every possible scenario, giving you detailed, tried, and true guidance for each (which makes this quite a long chapter), thereby providing for your best success. The rest is up to you . . . .
This “retro” tip is essential for your future relationship and due respectful consideration in the Christian dating realm. It may be tough, but if you don’t have the fortitude to take this risk, you aren’t ready to move into a familial priestly role, thereby disqualifying you to enter a relationship. You know what I am going to say, don’t you?
This attractive young lady is still her father’s daughter, and until someone moves into the role by marrying her, Dad is still the priest of her family. You guessed it: you must ask his permission to date his daughter, no matter is she is seventeen or eighty-five years of age. If her father is alive, you have the privilege of asking him. The caveat? If you win her father, you’ll increase her admiration for you. Below you will find the tools to tackle most any scenario dad throws your way.
“So, what is the best way to secure his approval?” you might inquire. Let’s just take this step by step.
Give Dad a call, and ask if you may stop by to visit with him. Ask if mom will be there. You may be asking dad, but mom should be in on the conversation. If they are no longer married, you will want to ask each separately.
There is more than one benefit to asking her parents. From the parent’s perspective, this requirement protects their daughter from anyone who doesn’t value her enough to make the effort, “weeding out the riffraff.” Opening communication avoids suspicion, which benefits you, and the effort demonstrates both your sincerity and respect for authority – a key to hearing that coveted “yes.”
Unless you live too far away, the asking must be done in person. This face-to-face acquainting-time is just too important to miss. Rare situations may warrant a phone call, but never ask via email. If you live too far away, you might have to use the next best alternative, but a several hour drive is not too far. “Too distant” basically means he is on a different continent. The farther you have to go to accomplish this task in person, the higher will be their esteem for you. Having encouraged you to go the distance, it is also important to use common sense. Since timing is important, we wouldn’t recommend putting this step off six months because you can’t be face to face, but asking in person is always best.
Do you wonder what to say? Try this: enter the home with humble confidence, shake his hand with a firm but not over vigorous shake, greet Mom, ask them how they are today while being seated, and then cut to the chase. They may not want you hanging around for hours trying to work up the guts. They expect you to be nervous, but don’t prattle or rush. Share with them that you have evaluated your life, prepared spiritually and practically, and that you feel you are ready to consider dating. Let them know that of all the girls you know, their daughter has made the best impression on you, and you’d like the opportunity to get to know her better in an exclusive dating relationship. Then ask for their permission to ask their daughter to date. Your words should be well thought out in advance, and if asked, the Holy Spirit will lead as He knows best how to direct this life changing conversation.
And if he says “no”?
One must be prayerfully prepared, in advance, to remain calm should this happen. An inappropriate response at this delicate time will justify their refusal. Since their daughter ultimately has the final say, you may one day seem to win in spite of anger, defensive, or subversive behavior (going behind their back), but someone else loses – and ultimately, so do you. Jean’s parents were once told, “I knew you wouldn’t like it, but I just figured that in five years from now when you saw everything was OK, you’d be glad.” Victory in the face of division and betrayal never turns sweet, and it dishonors Christ.
Avoid being defensive or demanding. Simply ask: “Do you have any advice for me? Is there something I can do to win your favor?” This is where many make their mistake as guys often feel like they must perform as though they have-it-all-together to impress her family, or as though he doesn’t need their advice; he is prepared and knows a lot already—especially about that girl. Asking parents for advice tells them that you don’t have your own selfish agenda, that you want to do what is right – that which will bless their daughter and contributes to her happiness. Asking their advice also shows respect for age and authority, which is key to a healthy relationship with them and their daughter.
One person’s suggested that since the Bible says, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife . . . ” (Genesis 2:24), it means that you will be joining her family in a sense, so one would do well to truly respect her parents as elders whether or not you like or agree with them. You needn’t agree on everything to feel respectful toward them, but respect shows that you are working toward a common goal: the care, nurturing, and happiness of their daughter. It shows you are on the same team.
Parents may refuse a suitor even if they know he is the best match for their daughter – we did. They may have concerns, but concerns can often be overcome with calm, healthy communication—and humility—on your part. No matter what they say, or how it is said, that heartfelt humility is your greatest argument. A truly humble man, even if he is never able to date their daughter, will want to respectfully maximize any opportunity for character building, but such a young man is not likely to be dismissed too quickly by those parents, even if he has a fault or two.
At this time, if Dad’s answer is “no”, do not ask his daughter to date. Any young man can honor her parent’s wishes as long as they agree with him. True valor, true Christ-like character is determined by honoring others in the face of adversity and even during unjust treatment. Here is where you can shine – or not. There may be more than one testing time—maybe to the point of exhaustion—but how much is she worth? “The glory of young men is their strength” – the strength to endure. This is no time to add barriers, and it’s in your hands ;-). It’s the parent’s job to protect their daughter, so let them. Hang in there respectfully. It isn’t over yet . . .
Now that you have their advice, if it was a good conversation, and it seems workable, ask if you can check back with them at a defined time, maybe a week, two weeks or whatever is needed to accomplish any mutually defined goals. Follow the plan and check back with them at the appointed time.
In the interim, I can almost guarantee that their daughter will find out about your asking—which should be her first real exposure to your interest. If she is interested, she will advocate for you to her parents. Also, be aware that by making known your interest to her family, she will realize that you are working on meeting the parent’s dating criteria, which means that you have already indirectly begun the wooing process. This is the only time that it is appropriate to woo prior to a formal dating relationship – only if done indirectly. Straight forward wooing, at this point, would be disrespectful.
If But what if they continue saying “no”?
There are some parents that can and will be completely unreasonable no matter what you do. Just remember that everyone’s thought processes and judgment-calls are based on their own past experiences, which are different than yours. When someone sees a snake, they will decide if that snake if friend or foe. Initially Eve would say friend, and Adam would say foe. Yet once experienced, they both realized they didn’t have a clue about this reptile. But if you ask me, I like reptiles, as I have never had a bad experience. A wise suitor recognizes that it’s all a matter of perspective and behaves accordingly.
The suitor most likely to be approved is he who makes an extra effort to understand her parents, to find out where he or she is coming from, if possible, and realize that though you don’t understand, it does make perfect sense to them – and he who respects that “they weren’t born yesterday.” Love them and treat them like Christ would, and the most unreasonable parents will be won if it is in God will. Keep in mind that you are demonstrating your character, and impacting eternity, by your patient trust in God’s ability to guide each heart.
If she is under age (eighteen years in the United States), then I hope I don’t have to tell you what to do, but just in case . . . wait until she is eighteen or, if her parents are paying her college tuition, wait until she is out of college. Even if she is over eighteen, you have a few extra hoops to jump through. You didn’t tell them you would never ask her out, however you must be cautious here. Their concerns could actually be valid, but you are not yet mature enough to see the light.
We observed one headstrong young man go against parents he thought were so unreasonable when the parents were right on! He just could not, would not, see the error of his ways, which were validated by the heartbreaking treatment of the family when they didn’t cater to his wishes. He got the girl but made everyone’s life miserable, including hers. I would argue whether it’s true love that puts her in that position – or an arrogant need to prove himself right at anyone’s expense but his own. His unwillingness to learn from her parents means that his headstrong, passionate ways are left to his wife’s discipline – a position a wise girl will avoid.
Another young man married a girl whose father said he could never marry. A miserable life resulted and twenty years later, his continued arrogance exposed his motive to be her father’s challenge and not a desire to further her best interest, all of which validated her father’s refusal too late.
It would be best to not even consider wooing this young woman, or discussing dating with her, until you have worked with the parents for at least three months. If they still refuse, before asking her, you should consult a Christian marriage counselor to inquire whether the parents might have a legitimate concern that needs rectified before dating. Should you eventually go against her parent’s wishes and date her, you want to prove you are a stand-up guy by bringing a report back to them from an unbiased certified Christian marriage counselor—family or friends do not qualify. It may cost you some money, but a valuable investment if she means anything to you. Should you and your counselor decide that the parents are still being unreasonable, even after presenting information from the counselor, you must be up front with them before pursuing her directly.
Very respectfully ask them again to date their daughter. If they still refuse, and if she is of age, remind them very humbly and even more respectfully that you have done what you can (if you truly have) to accommodate their concerns, including consulting a professional, and that you would like the choice to be their daughter’s. Tell them that you will give them time to speak with her, so you will delay asking until tomorrow. Giving the parents time to talk with their daughter lets them know that you are not trying to usurp their authority but attempting to do all you can to work with them. No matter how unreasonable they might be, you need to be reasonable. Leave with a humble appeal for them to reconsider. Then pray, asking God to lead all those involved over the next twenty-four hours, trusting that He is in control. On the morrow, ask her directly, accepting graciously her response.
By now you might be saying, “No! I could be wasting my time and energy. She may not even like me. This is way too much to do without knowing whether I have a chance with her. It is just too much to ask.” If that thought crosses your mind, consider this: you want to date her to see if she is your soul mate for the rest of your life, to love, honor, cherish, through sickness and health, etc., but you aren’t willing to risk three months of your life unless you know she is interested? This idea hints that when life gets tough, you won’t make any effort unless you know the outcome, which disqualifies you as a suitor or husband. This plan has its risks, but was it not this same risk that won us to Christ? He sacrificed for me and you while risking that we would not accept Him. Just like you and me, the value of the girl is demonstrated by the enormity of the risk.
Unless you present yourself in an extremely undesirable way, only the hardest of hearts would not be touched by such gentle, respectful perseverance. The highest form of wooing is self-sacrifice . . . and risk. This young lady may have despised you in the beginning, but when you work through this process, you will have one of two assurances: 1) she will fall for the guy who cares enough to do it right, to humbly “fight” for her while showing respect for those she loves, or 2) you two are just not meant to be together. You accomplished in three months what three years of dating may not have exposed and, either way, since God alone knows the future, you ultimately win by trusting Him.
“Sure! You can ask, but . . . “
Suppose the parents are OK with you dating their daughter but tell you that she will probably refuse. We’re back to the same question as before: “Do you have advice for me?” Put their advice to use, but unless what they suggest will take some time, don’t walk away from this encounter without asking her to date within the next twenty-four hours.
Why would you ask the girl if the parents made it clear that she may say no? There are several reasons: 1) sometimes parents don’t know what their kids are thinking, and she should answer for herself, 2) sometimes the girl doesn’t really know how she feels until you approach her, 3) if she declines, you need to hear it from her own lips, and 4) this very interaction might make her notice you when she hadn’t before. Don’t let fear slow you down. It’s worth giving her a chance, but avoid prolonged drama by asking ASAP.
A Resounding “Yes!”
Of course, we know that you have shown yourself a godly man, and no parent could refuse. You are elated, and they are excited. Again, this is the time to humbly and sincerely ask: “Do you have any advice for me?” They will likely have some great ideas about how to win her heart but may also have some good advice about life in general; listen well. They are smart people. After all, they approve of you.
You have now earned the right to date, but you wouldn’t want to be successful with Dad only to “blow it” with her. In the following chapter, you will find some tips that will leave you feeling prepared and confident, but it really isn’t that hard – or is it?
